Jolly about Giuliani
There seems to be both joy and worry brewing amongst the GOP faithful about how a primary victory by Rudy Giuliani would play out. Principled Conservatives like writer Andrew Sullivan are hopeful for a Giuliani win because it would essentially void the impact of the Religious Right and might even expose the movement’s extremism. Sullivan’s distaste of the Religious Right is certainly shared by many in the GOP, including former NJ Governor Christine Todd Whitman and former Missouri Senator John Danforth. It appears that limiting the impact of the theocrats, in their opinion, is essential no matter what the 08’general election outcome.
The worrisome opinion of those solely concerned with short-term electoral gains is reflected in recent discussions by the National Review’s Terry Jeffrey and Kate O’Bierne. Uttering electoral concerns, they both point out that a Giuliani primary win would doom victory in the general election because the lack of a “values” debate would force social conservatives to stay home or—-hold your breath—-actually look at issues like war, the economy, and the environment. This might lead enough Catholics and Evangelicals to vote Democrat so that states like Ohio could turn blue.
I must say that I admire Sullivan and those like him but am embracing the worriers view. I would love a Giuliani win because it would expose the Republican Party for what it truly is: a Party that’s sole job is to consolidate wealth for the top 10% (maybe even less) of the Country. They are certainly not the Party of limited government given how both Reagan and Bush expanded it to help the rich. They are certainly not the Party of national security competence. And if they truly cared about supposed “moral values” then they wouldn’t have defectors, like David Kuo, expose the Office of Faith Based Initiatives as fraudulent, nor would they be indifferent about the destruction of the Gulf Coast.
I am pulling for a Giuliani primary win because it will create political lines based more on income and class, which is a winner for the Party of the People and for those who care more about health care than tax breaks for the wealthy. The only thing the GOP will be able to say by nominating Giuliani is that they are good at helping the rich. By nominating Giuliani they certainly won’t be able to say that they are good at exploiting religious voters, which is about all else they have.
On principle, I would hope that no matter who the GOP nominates, that the Democratic Party attempts to compete in each and every state by stressing a populist economic message that brings back memories of FDR and Truman. I think the Dems can win in places like North Carolina and Montana, they just have to go there and explain why a more progressive tax policy is moral, and why giving tax breaks to Exxon Mobil is not. Economic Populism is back and Dems can win with it. However, the GOP nomination of Rudy Giuliani might make it a little easier.
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And he\'s gonna win!
All of us from MA already know what a fool Romney is, and it\'s only a matter of time before the rest of the country gets up to speed. I\'ll give his competition until about December to entirely dissect his weak background. In a nutshell he\'s a flip-flipper who met none of the campaign promises that got him elected in MA, and became so unpopular in the end that he was in the State less than half the time in his final year as Governor.
McCain, will fall under the sword due to his religious support of the Bush Administration on anything related to Iraq. As the Adminstration\'s policies continue to fail, McCain will lose support in the masses just as his Republican colleagues did in losing their seats last fall.
Rudy - Barack here we come!
Anyone wanna wager?
FATHER/DAUGHTER TALK
>
>A young woman was about to finish her first year of college. Like so many
>others her age, she considered herself to be a very liberal Democrat, and
>was very much in favor of the redistribution of wealth.
>
>She was deeply ashamed that her father was a rather staunch Republican, a
>feeling she openly expressed. Based on the lectures that she had
>participated in, and the occasional chat with a professor, she felt hat her
>father had for years harbored an evil, selfish desire to keep what he
>thought should be his.
>
>One day she was challenging her father on his opposition to higher taxes on
>the rich and the addition of more government welfare programs. The
>self-professed objectivity proclaimed by her professors had to be the truth
>and she indicated so to her father. He responded by asking how she was
>doing
>in school.
>
>Taken aback, she answered rather haughtily that she had a 4.0 GPA, and let
>him know that it was tough to maintain, insisting that she was taking a
>very
>difficult course load and was constantly studying, which left her no time
>to
>go out and party like other people she knew. She didn\'t even have time for
>a
>boyfriend, and didn\'t really have many college friends because she spent
>all
>her time studying.
>
>Her father listened and then asked, \"How is your friend Audrey doing?\" She
>replied, \"Audrey is barely getting by. All she takes are easy classes, she
>never studies, and she barely has a 2.0 GPA. She s so popular on campus,
>college for her is a blast. She\'s always invited to all the parties, and
>lots of times she doesn\'t even show up for classes because she\'s too hung
>over.\"
>
>Her father asked his daughter, \"Why don\'t you go to the Dean\'s office and
>ask him to deduct a 1.0 off your GPA and give it to your friend who only
>has
>a 2.0. That way you will both have a 3.0 GPA and certainly that would be a
>fair and equal distribution of GPA.\"
>
>The daughter, visibly shocked by her father\'s suggestion, angrily fired
>back, \"That wouldn\'t be fair! I have worked really hard for my grades! I\'ve
>invested a lot of time, and a lot of hard work! Audrey has done next to
>nothing toward her degree. She played while I worked my tail off!\"
>
>The father slowly smiled, winked and said gently, \"Welcome to the
>Republican
>Party.\"
And then that smart little girl became a vicious blood thirsty business tycoon with no friends.
And her partying 2.0 GPA College Buddy became a loving mother, with a sense of humor, that her children actually respected.
And everyone lived happily ever after!!
But then there\'s the other Republicans who didn\'t work quite so hard. Ever heard of inheritance or the lottery?
And he’s gonna win!
All of us from MA already know what a fool Romney is, and it’s only a matter of time before the rest of the country gets up to speed. I’ll give his competition until about December to entirely dissect his weak background. In a nutshell he’s a flip-flipper who met none of the campaign promises that got him elected in MA, and became so unpopular in the end that he was in the State less than half the time in his final year as Governor.
McCain, will fall under the sword due to his religious support of the Bush Administration on anything related to Iraq. As the Adminstration’s policies continue to fail, McCain will lose support in the masses just as his Republican colleagues did in losing their seats last fall.
Rudy - Barack here we come!
Anyone wanna wager?
FATHER/DAUGHTER TALK
>
>A young woman was about to finish her first year of college. Like so many
>others her age, she considered herself to be a very liberal Democrat, and
>was very much in favor of the redistribution of wealth.
>
>She was deeply ashamed that her father was a rather staunch Republican, a
>feeling she openly expressed. Based on the lectures that she had
>participated in, and the occasional chat with a professor, she felt hat her
>father had for years harbored an evil, selfish desire to keep what he
>thought should be his.
>
>One day she was challenging her father on his opposition to higher taxes on
>the rich and the addition of more government welfare programs. The
>self-professed objectivity proclaimed by her professors had to be the truth
>and she indicated so to her father. He responded by asking how she was
>doing
>in school.
>
>Taken aback, she answered rather haughtily that she had a 4.0 GPA, and let
>him know that it was tough to maintain, insisting that she was taking a
>very
>difficult course load and was constantly studying, which left her no time
>to
>go out and party like other people she knew. She didn’t even have time for
>a
>boyfriend, and didn’t really have many college friends because she spent
>all
>her time studying.
>
>Her father listened and then asked, “How is your friend Audrey doing?” She
>replied, “Audrey is barely getting by. All she takes are easy classes, she
>never studies, and she barely has a 2.0 GPA. She s so popular on campus,
>college for her is a blast. She’s always invited to all the parties, and
>lots of times she doesn’t even show up for classes because she’s too hung
>over.”
>
>Her father asked his daughter, “Why don’t you go to the Dean’s office and
>ask him to deduct a 1.0 off your GPA and give it to your friend who only
>has
>a 2.0. That way you will both have a 3.0 GPA and certainly that would be a
>fair and equal distribution of GPA.”
>
>The daughter, visibly shocked by her father’s suggestion, angrily fired
>back, “That wouldn’t be fair! I have worked really hard for my grades! I’ve
>invested a lot of time, and a lot of hard work! Audrey has done next to
>nothing toward her degree. She played while I worked my tail off!”
>
>The father slowly smiled, winked and said gently, “Welcome to the
>Republican
>Party.”
Mike\'s little story is cute but it is hardly a relateable anecdote when we look at how the wealthy in America benefit from an educated workforce, good infrastructure, and preventative government services . If Mike would take a look he would find that, thanks to Reagn and Bush, wealthy Americans are the least taxed demographic group in the industrial world. He can wine all he wants about how \"unfair\" it is to significantly tax people who got rich because of our great country\'s infrastructure and workforce or he can realize that if we are going to improve that infrastructure, reach our education goals, and create a long-run energy policy than we will need to raise more revenue from those who have the ability to pay it. Fairness is not the issue here, our future as the greatest nation on earth is.
And then that smart little girl became a vicious blood thirsty business tycoon with no friends.
And her partying 2.0 GPA College Buddy became a loving mother, with a sense of humor, that her children actually respected.
And everyone lived happily ever after!!
But then there’s the other Republicans who didn’t work quite so hard. Ever heard of inheritance or the lottery?
Mike’s little story is cute but it is hardly a relateable anecdote when we look at how the wealthy in America benefit from an educated workforce, good infrastructure, and preventative government services . If Mike would take a look he would find that, thanks to Reagn and Bush, wealthy Americans are the least taxed demographic group in the industrial world. He can wine all he wants about how “unfair” it is to significantly tax people who got rich because of our great country’s infrastructure and workforce or he can realize that if we are going to improve that infrastructure, reach our education goals, and create a long-run energy policy than we will need to raise more revenue from those who have the ability to pay it. Fairness is not the issue here, our future as the greatest nation on earth is.
I lived in New York City and Long Island for the entire period that Giuliani was Mayor, save for about six months. I was less than impressed. I\'ve written in depth about what I viewed firsthand as some of his shortcomings. Those that want a quick overview on Giuliani all you need to do is a little research online. Even go to Amazon and see some of the juicy books that have been written about his life. All this is not to say that he may not win. He\'s very politically talented.
Is it just me, or does the media seem to be in such a lovefest with Hillary vs. Obama that the other major candidtes, including Giuliani, Edwards and McCain seem almost to be relegated already to second tier status.
Alex
I lived in New York City and Long Island for the entire period that Giuliani was Mayor, save for about six months. I was less than impressed. I’ve written in depth about what I viewed firsthand as some of his shortcomings. Those that want a quick overview on Giuliani all you need to do is a little research online. Even go to Amazon and see some of the juicy books that have been written about his life. All this is not to say that he may not win. He’s very politically talented.
Is it just me, or does the media seem to be in such a lovefest with Hillary vs. Obama that the other major candidtes, including Giuliani, Edwards and McCain seem almost to be relegated already to second tier status.
Alex
The eloquent gentleman from Oregon is correct… a Rudy nomination will splinter and divide the GOP… however, the party is already splintered and divided thanks to the faux-conservatism of George W. Bush.
It is too early to make a prediction of this nature, but I am inclined to think that Rudy will fail to win the nomination because of his positions on choice and the 2nd Amendment, which fall outside of the scope of the vast majority of the GOP electorate.
I hope that Jon is correct about McCain, however, I see him as the 800 pound gorilla right now who must be stopped. There is still time for a sensible candidate like Gilmore, Romney, or Huckabee to break out from the pack; or for a solid policy candidate like Ron Paul to come out swingin\'!
Just heard a Gilmore interview on CSPAN radio on the way into work this morning and I met him briefly at a fundraiser in northern VA in January. He is for real… I just hope he can raise the cash!
I am going to keep my comments short. I disagree with Shrader on calling Romney a sensible candidate, especially since he has pivoted more on abortion than Larry Bird ever did when he was facing Magic. Romney\'s record as governor will get torn to shreds as well considering he didn\'t really govern and consistently made jokes about the state. I think you\'re better off hoping for a Huckabee or Gilmore.
Also Ree, I think Edwards will be the populist candidate of 2008. Go read Ezra Klein\'s current piece in American Prospect and you will know what I mean. I\'m not sure if Obama is a populist or not. Need to research that one.
Jon, the truth hurts so much ….. you want a different ending
Hey Simmons, ever hear of John Kerry and Ted Kennedy \"The Leaders of the Left\" …………
Hey Ree, you should revisit Math 101….
Just one question….at what point does some become \"RICH\"? \"NO ONE\" seems to want to answer that question in dollars and cents.
The eloquent gentleman from Oregon is correct… a Rudy nomination will splinter and divide the GOP… however, the party is already splintered and divided thanks to the faux-conservatism of George W. Bush.
It is too early to make a prediction of this nature, but I am inclined to think that Rudy will fail to win the nomination because of his positions on choice and the 2nd Amendment, which fall outside of the scope of the vast majority of the GOP electorate.
I hope that Jon is correct about McCain, however, I see him as the 800 pound gorilla right now who must be stopped. There is still time for a sensible candidate like Gilmore, Romney, or Huckabee to break out from the pack; or for a solid policy candidate like Ron Paul to come out swingin’!
Just heard a Gilmore interview on CSPAN radio on the way into work this morning and I met him briefly at a fundraiser in northern VA in January. He is for real… I just hope he can raise the cash!
I am going to keep my comments short. I disagree with Shrader on calling Romney a sensible candidate, especially since he has pivoted more on abortion than Larry Bird ever did when he was facing Magic. Romney’s record as governor will get torn to shreds as well considering he didn’t really govern and consistently made jokes about the state. I think you’re better off hoping for a Huckabee or Gilmore.
Also Ree, I think Edwards will be the populist candidate of 2008. Go read Ezra Klein’s current piece in American Prospect and you will know what I mean. I’m not sure if Obama is a populist or not. Need to research that one.
Jon, the truth hurts so much ….. you want a different ending
Hey Simmons, ever hear of John Kerry and Ted Kennedy “The Leaders of the Left” …………
Hey Ree, you should revisit Math 101….
Just one question….at what point does some become “RICH”? “NO ONE” seems to want to answer that question in dollars and cents.
Alex,
I’m in the same location as you, but see things so differently.
I see Giuliani as being progressive enough to win in NYC, and conservative enough to cut taxes many times and make NYC into a place where normal people want to vist.